Eivind » posted to Eivind and linguistics
Russenorsk - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russenorsk
"Russenorsk (Norwegian pronunciation: [ˈrʉsəˌnɔʂk]; Russian: Руссено́рск, [rʊsʲɪˈnorsk]) is an extinct dual-source pidgin language formerly used in the Arctic, which combined elements of Russian and Norwegian, and which was created by Russian traders and Norwegian fishermen from northern Norway and the Russian Kola peninsula. It was used extensively in Northern Norway for about 150 years in the Pomor trade. Russenorsk is important as a test case for theories concerning pidgin languages since it was used far away from most of the other documented pidgins of the world." ‎- Eivind
Just learned about this while prepping food today. Had never heard about it before :) ‎- Eivind
Fascinating! I have also never heard of it. I wonder whether anyone tried to compare this to pidgins in other parts of the world. ‎- maitani
"Russenorsk does not have extensive morphology, but has some unique characteristics. The ending -om does not come from Russian nor Norwegian, but it may come from Solombala English.[3] The ending -mann, from Norwegian, is used to indicate nationality or profession, for example russmann (Russian), burmann (Norwegian), or kukmann (trader). Other morphological features are reduplication, such as morra-morradag (after tomorrow), and compounding, such as kua (cow) and sjorta (shirt) to kuasjorta (cowhide)." ‎- maitani
It makes me wonder whether any other pidgins cropped up when the Vikings initially met the Rus. ‎- Spidra Webster
Probably, but how can we trace them, if they have not been written down? ‎- maitani
If not written, probably impossible unless an oral culture was passed down. But I'm finding out that sometimes languages you didn't think were written were. That is, someone literate in a dominant culture wrote it down in some way. It varies all the way from just a couple words to poems/songs to "dictionaries". I've also seen examples where someone uses the writing system of a dominant people to write their own language as graffiti or gravestones. I suppose Russian or Old Norse linguists would be aware if there were resources. ‎- Spidra Webster
(To the best of our knowledge, the Vikings initially /were/ the Rus, Spidra. At least the elite core of the Rus. The Scandinavians must have had very interesting trading languages for use in the Baltics, though, dealing with other Germanic speakers, Finnic speakers, Baltic speakers, Slavic speakers, and, later, when they stared going down the Volga and Dnieper, Greek speaking Byzantines and Central Asian Muslims and Jews.) ‎- Eivind
A lot of slav states formed around non-slav nuclei- the Bulgars being Turks for example, and as my learned friend above says the Rus being Scandinavians. ‎- Pete Smith
I always thought Germanic and Nordic tribes had similar roots though ‎- SaeedTheGiraffe ?
Nordic is part of the Germanic language family, but languages aren't completely mutually intelligible across it :) ‎- Eivind
You should be careful saying that aloud in Bulgaria, Pete :) ‎- Eivind
@eivind: moreover, they are still debating here in Russia whether "Rus" were founders or a military service that gained power and become the elite ;) ‎- lack of relaxation and leisure
ah it was the languages that had the same roots, I see, well it would be surprising if all members of a ,language family understood each other, I mean Persian and Old English are both Indo-European ‎- SaeedTheGiraffe ?
@shalapanova: Indeed, and that is to a certain extent just a matter of perspective. They certainly didn't "found" anything where there was nothing before. According to the Russian Chronicle they were even invited from Sweden to rule Novgordod :) ‎- Eivind